KD Kyndryl Holdings, Inc.
$12.94
Kyndryl Holdings, Inc. Q2 F2027 Earnings Call Transcript
AI Conference Call Analysis
Sign in or subscribe to read.Conference Operator
Operator
Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Kindrel conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you'll need to press star 11 on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising that your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the call over to Lori Chaitman, Global Head of Investor Relations.
Lori Chaitman
Global Head of Investor Relations
Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Kyndryl's earnings call for the second fiscal quarter ended September 30th, 2026. Before we begin, I'd like to remind you that our remarks today include forward-looking statements. These statements speak only as of today, and actual outcomes or results may differ materially from those suggested by forward-looking statements as a result of risks and uncertainties as described in our SEC filings. Also, in today's remarks, we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial metrics, definitions and additional information about our calculation of non-GAAP financial metrics as well as reconciliation of non-GAAP metrics to GAAP metrics for historical periods are provided in the presentation materials for today's events, which are available on our website at investors.kyndryl.com. With me today are Kyndryl's Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Martin Schroeter and Kyndryl's Chief Financial Officer Ellen Johnson. Following our prepared remarks, we will hold a Q&A session. I will now turn the call over to Martin.
Martin Schroeter
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Thank you, Lori, and thanks to each of you for joining us. In the second quarter, we executed on our key priorities, and we made progress in our growth opportunities. Signings and revenue grew in Kindrel Consult, and we continue to see positive momentum with hyperscalers and demand for modernization. The actions we're taking to streamline our operations are now largely behind us, and we expect to begin realizing savings in the second half of this year. Customers trust Kindrel to run and modernize their essential technology environments at scale. They rely on us to lead complex migrations, modernize applications and data, and deploy AI securely across their enterprises. That requires talented people with deep expertise, the trust of our customers, and extensive systems, operational, and engineering data to understand these extraordinarily complex technology environments. Our investments in Kindrel Consult, Alliances, and Agentic AI, including Kindrel Bridge, position us to expand scope and win new logos by delivering valuable business outcomes. We're seeing this momentum in the U.S., where revenue has grown for three consecutive quarters, as well as in Spain and Latin America. As we move into the second half of our fiscal year, our strategic priorities remain clear. We are reaffirming our full-year outlook and progressing toward our fiscal 2028 financial objectives Ellen will provide more detail on our recent financial results and fiscal 2027 outlook. As we highlighted last quarter, we entered the year with a five-point improvement in beginning backlog versus fiscal 2026. And halfway through the year, we're seeing more opportunities with scope expansions and new logos that support future signings growth and a better mix of high-value services. Over the last 12 months, Kindrel consult signings have exceeded revenue. reflecting continued enterprise demand for AI modernization and cyber preparedness as customers balance innovation and transformation with operational stability. We're seeing these same dynamics create opportunities across our alliance ecosystem with customers' needs driving demand in both public and private cloud. Our AI-led modernization work brings together Kindrel Consult and our alliances to help customers achieve better business outcomes. and by combining advisory services with delivery excellence, we continue to sign deals with average projected pre-tax margins in the high single digits. Through advanced delivery, we are embedding automation and AI into our operations to improve productivity and move our teams to higher value work. Kindle Bridge provides the foundation to deploy, govern and orchestrate agents across IT estates. We've substantially completed our workforce rebalancing actions. and the savings expected to be realized in the second half of this year will largely offset the charges incurred in the first half. And in fiscal 2028, we continue to expect an annualized run rate of operating expense savings of approximately $400 to $500 million. And the earning trajectory we're driving toward has a strong conversion to free cash flow that provides us with the financial flexibility to invest in our growth strategy. AI-led modernization demand is evident in our signings performance. Over the last 12 months, we signed 43 deals in excess of $50 million, including 11 in the second quarter. Across those 43 large deals, approximately one-third of the value contained scope expansions and new logos, compared with about a quarter in the same period last year. We signed 154 deals in excess of $10 million over the last 12 months, with approximately one-third of those also containing scope expansions and new logos. Kindrel Consult's growth reflects demand for modernization, including the integration of agentic AI across infrastructure, applications, and workflows with cybersecurity, governance, and resilience. To support that demand, we expanded our global network of AI innovation labs to Dallas and Luxembourg, adding to our existing lab in Liverpool. Bringing together our Kindrel agentic framework, differentiated IP and specialized talent, including Kindrel Vital Designers, Forward Deployed Engineers and Industry Experts, these labs address customers' challenges by testing high-value use cases in a collaborative lab environment, validating solutions against desired business outcomes, and developing roadmaps to deploy and rapidly scale AI in existing environments. With hyperscalers, we're modernizing mission-critical workloads and designing cloud architectures for evolving data residency and operational requirements. Our expanded Broadcom relationship adds end-to-end consulting for VMware Cloud Foundation, helping enterprises modernize and secure critical systems and build resilient private clouds with public cloud speed, automation, and developer experience. AI is accelerating the modernization imperative. Our global modernization report reinforces this urgency. Nearly half of organizations are behind on their modernization goals and 98% of those that delayed modernization experienced negative business impacts. Organizations deploying agents are making faster modernization progress and seeing better results. With our differentiated solutions, we're modernizing our customers' full technology environment so they can scale reliably, securely and with the flexibility to adapt as technology and business requirements change. Customers are navigating complex hybrid IT estates, a rapid pace of innovation, increasing business continuity risk, and evolving regulatory demands. They need to transform without disrupting the essential systems their businesses depend on every day. That is where our approach is differentiated. We combine deep experiencing, running, and modernizing mission-critical technology environments with the operational knowledge the technology platforms and the engineering expertise needed to help customers run and transform at the same time. Our data is an important part of that advantage. We have knowledge of what is in our customers' technology environments, what is happening across them and how experienced engineers respond. Kindle Bridge is our platform that brings together data insights, AI governance and orchestration, giving our people and increasingly agents the context to understand what is happening and determine the appropriate next action. Next week with ServiceNow, we'll announce a new co-developed solution that combines ServiceNow's AI-powered workflows with Kindrel bridge data, operational intelligence, and agents, giving ServiceNow customers valuable context across their IT estate on configurations, dependencies, performance, events, changes, incidents, risks, resolutions, and so much more. All of our capabilities are designed to deliver the outcomes our customers are increasingly seeking Faster Return on Investment, Transform Business Workflows, Greater Visibility into Costs and Opportunities to Optimize Them, and Advanced Cybersecurity and Resiliency. Just as importantly, customers want to preserve platform choice and control of their data as their environments and the sovereignty requirements evolve. As we've said in the past, sovereignty is a critical consideration for our customers, and next week we'll introduce our differentiated solution to address their sovereignty challenges. A combination of our mission-critical expertise, operational and engineering data and capabilities positions Kindryl to help customers simplify complexity and modernize continuously. The result is a faster, more consistent, and scalable solution aligned to business outcomes while preserving quality, security, choice, and control that our customers require. We're delivering these capabilities across our customer base and seeing growth opportunities from winning new logos and expanding scope with our long-standing customers. Here are three examples of how we're using AI-led modernization to move up the tech stack, applying our expertise in infrastructure, governance, and data management to solve important customer challenges and deliver business outcomes. First, we expanded our long-standing relationship with a large global marketing services company. We've managed their infrastructure for more than 15 years, and we're now moving up the technology stack to include application-led services. To help unify their technology operations and accelerate their enterprise transformation, we're using AI-enabled application management and rationalization with the Kindral Agentic Framework as the foundation for running and transforming business platforms. The goal is to simplify their technology environment, drive significant cost savings, and scale AI-enabled operations. Next, we expanded our two-decade relationship with a major European bank. They selected us for this additional scope because of our regulatory and resiliency expertise. To help scale AI safely and reliably in a highly regulated environment, we're using our policy as code capability to build regulatory and risk controls directly into their platform. This enables automated, auditable compliance by design while accelerating AI use cases into production. and finally we expanded our long-standing relationship with the global luxury goods company to provide critical technology support across key business functions while advancing their transformation. Leveraging Kindrel Bridge data insights, automation and digital twins will help streamline operations, enhance service quality, drive savings and scale globally. These engagements show how our trusted operational expertise, Kindrel Consult, Kindrel Bridge, and our agentic capabilities expand our role in modernizing applications, infrastructure, and business operations, creating further opportunities to grow customer relationships and value. We also completed the acquisition of healthcare IT leaders, expanding our healthcare application implementation and managed services capabilities across clinical, operational, and workforce systems, and helping customers modernize mission-critical systems and accelerate digital transformation. Our differentiated solutions are leading to tangible business results and our focus is clear to drive profitable revenue growth and stronger free cash flow. Now I'll pass the call over to Ellen to discuss our quarterly results and our fiscal year outlook.
Ellen Johnson
Chief Financial Officer
Ellen. Thanks, Martin. And hello, everyone. I'm excited to be here today joining the Kindrel team. I will focus my comments on our second quarter results and the outlook for our fiscal year 2027. In Q2, we generated 3.65 billion of revenue, down 1.9% year-over-year as reported, and down 80 points in constant currency. For the third consecutive quarter, we delivered strong year-over-year revenue growth in the US. In the second quarter, Revenue in the U.S. segment was up 9%, of which roughly 6 points was largely driven by growth in Kindle Consult, and approximately 3 points was attributable to the resolution of a commercial matter. During the quarter, we made a minor change to our segments to reflect how we manage our operations and measure business performance, transitioning India from principal markets to strategic markets. Total signings over the last 12 months were $15.5 billion, of which $4.1 billion were signed in Q2. Our adjusted EBITDA in the quarter was $699 million, with adjusted EBITDA margins of 19.1%, an increase of 190 basis points. Our adjusted pre-tax income was $150 million, with adjusted PTI margins of 4.1%. increasing 80 basis points year over year. This performance was largely driven by gross margins expansion as our revenue mix of business continues to improve. In the second quarter, amortization expense was $323 million compared to $306 million last year due to an increase in prepaid software that supports the services we provide to our customers. Looking ahead, we now expect amortization expense to remain at the current levels, resulting in approximately $1.3 billion for the full year fiscal 2027. Interest expense increased to $37 million compared to $20 million in the same period a year ago, due largely to increased interest rates and borrowings. For the full year, we now expect interest expense to be approximately $160 million reflecting the September debt issuance, partially offset by the repayments of the revolver and the October senior notes. Turning to cash flow, in the first half of the year, free cash flow was a use of $434 million. The largest use of cash during the period was $447 million in working capital, which primarily reflects the seasonality of vendor payments. These higher payments were related to multi-year renewals and annual prepaid software subscriptions, largely in the first quarter. In the second half of the year, we expect free cash flow to be driven by meaningfully higher earnings in addition to cash contributions from working capital. While quarter-to-quarter dynamics can vary, we continue to target a strong conversion of earnings to free cash flow on a full-year basis and are reaffirming our fiscal 2027 free cash flow outlook of $400 to $500 million. In the appendix, we provide a bridge from our adjusted EVTA to our free cash flow. Our financial position remains strong. Our cash balance at September 30th was $1.7 billion, compared to $2.6 billion as of March 31st, primarily driven by our first-half working capital needs and after funding our acquisition of healthcare IT leaders. Our available liquidity is $4.8 billion. As I mentioned, during the quarter, we completed a debt issuance of $600 million in senior notes due 2029 and $400 million in senior notes due 2032. The net proceeds of this offering were used to repay the $700 million in senior notes that matured in October and, together with cash on hand, the $1 billion outstanding balance under the revolving credit agreement. Our debt maturities are well-laddered through 2041, with the next significant maturity in October 2028. We exited the quarter with net leverage ratio aligned with our target of below one times adjusted EBTA, and we expect our ratio to remain below one times adjusted EBTA exiting the fiscal year. As part of our ongoing balance sheet optimization efforts, we recently established a commercial paper program to supplement and further diversify our sources of seasonal short-term working capital funding. Our capital allocation priorities remain focused on financial flexibility with strong liquidity, including to invest in strategic growth initiatives and maintaining our investment grade ratings. For almost five years, our signings have reflected a healthier mix of higher value services, including Kendrell Consult, and Hyperscaler-related revenue streams. As Martin noted, new scope and new logos represent a growing percentage of our large deal signings. Based on our average projected gross margin of 25% on signings over the last 12 months, we added more gross profit dollars to backlog than we reported over the same period. In fact, in the first half of this year, We delivered gross margins of 22.5% compared to 21.4% in the same period last year. We continue to expect gross margins to expand as we progress through the remainder of the year. Turning to our outlook for fiscal 2027, we continue to expect adjusted pre-tax income to be in the range of $600 to $700 million. This pre-tax income outlook includes approximately $200 million of workforce rebalancing charges and a similar amount of savings this year. In fiscal 2028, these actions are expected to yield annualized operating expense savings in the range of $400 to $500 million. For the full year, we continue to expect revenues to be flashed down 2% in constant currency, including the contribution from the acquisition in the second half. Within that, we expect Kindrel Consult and our alliances-related revenue streams will continue to grow, supported by the strengths in the U.S. and Japan segments in constant currency. For the full year, we continue to expect free cash flow in the range of $400 to $500 million. Let me now pass the call back to Martin.
Martin Schroeter
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Thank you, Ellen. To wrap up, the opportunity ahead builds on the role Kindrel already plays for our customers. and we remain confident in our ability to deliver in our fiscal 2027. Every day, our people help keep essential systems running and businesses moving around the world. That gives us a unique understanding of our customers' technology environments and a depth of operational knowledge that becomes even more valuable in the AI era. As customers modernize and scale innovation across their businesses, we can build on that trusted position to help them transform the systems they depend on and expand the value Kindryl delivers. We're seeing momentum in Kindryl consults and hyperscaler related revenue streams and in modernization while improving the quality of our signings and driving greater efficiency across the business. We continue to expand our capabilities through our partner ecosystem, helping customers modernize and build secure, resilient and AI ready environments. Operator, let's now move to questions.
Conference Operator
Operator
Thank you. At this time, we will conduct the question and answer session. As a reminder, to ask a question, you will need to press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Please stand by as we compile the Q&A roster. Our first question comes from James Fawcett from JP Morgan. Your line is now open.
Martin Schroeter
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Operator?
Conference Operator
Operator
Hello, James. James Fawcett's line should now be open.
Lori Chaitman
Global Head of Investor Relations
Operator, we can move to the next question and bring James back into the queue. Okay. Thanks.
Conference Operator
Operator
Our next question comes from Jonathan Lee from Guggenheim Securities. Your line is now open. Great. Thanks for taking my question.
Jonathan Lee
Analyst, Guggenheim Securities
First quarter deck included a target of $1 billion in adjusted free cash flow by fiscal 28, which we didn't see in today's deck. Cash signpost has been rewarded to a strong conversion of earnings to free cash flow. And today's release no longer references multi-year objectives, even as all the fiscal 28 signposts are marked on track. Is the billion-dollar target still intact? If not, how should investors think about the fiscal 28 framework, especially given this is Ellen's first quarter CFO?
Martin Schroeter
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Yeah, so look, you'll hear from Ellen as well, the billion still is on track, right? What we're going to see coming out of fiscal 27 when we finish, given the cash flow dynamics, they're going to look exactly as we've explained and described over the years, which is this year as well, free cash flow will be adjusted operating profit, less cash taxes. And so when we get to next year with profit on track, and the signposts are intended to show that we're on track across each of the elements that will drive fiscal 28. We still see the same free cash flow that we've been talking about for fiscal 28. I would not over-interpret on a second quarter call, I would not over-interpret anything other than we're still on track. Ellen's here, obviously, and as you said, her first call, so it'd be good to hear from Ellen too.
Ellen Johnson
Chief Financial Officer
Sure, thank you. We continue to progress towards fiscal 2028 and our financial objectives. Right now, we're very focused on delivering 2027, and we're very pleased with the quarter. And that should set us up well for 2028. We had very strong signings. Signings grew 34% in the first half. Our LTM book to bill was 1.04 times. And we expect stronger revenue growth in the second half, recognizing that we have a difficult comp in Q3. Our gross margin in the first half was 22.4% and we expect that to continue to improve in the second half. We're on track with regards to our WFR and expect significant savings in the second half of this year because you will not have the charge and you will have the savings. And we're very pleased with our progress to date. Jonathan, do you have another question for us?
Jonathan Lee
Analyst, Guggenheim Securities
Yep. Thanks for that, Collar. And as we think about The LTM signings, you know, exceeding revenue, gross profit, book to bill improved to 1.2 times. But it looks like the expected gross margin on signings is held in at 25% below what we saw in fiscal 25 and fiscal 26, despite pre-tax margin holding in at 8%. So what's driving the lower gross margin on recent signings? What offsets that at the pre-tax level? And how does pricing compare on new scope and new logos versus renewals?
Martin Schroeter
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
So a couple of things. I'm trying to follow some of the data you suggested. When we look at our gross profit book-to-bill performance, it continues to demonstrate that we will grow gross profit dollars in the future. We see good signings performance in the first half. And keep in mind, when we talk about signings, it's a little bit, I think, different from What others would report as bookings, our signings really reflect only what's being added to the backlog. So there is also a bookings number, which is higher, obviously, over time as we renew things that are already in the backlog. So from a profit perspective, though, our mid-20 gross profit margin suggests 25 in the last 12 months, 25% suggests we'll deliver 25%. And in fact, as we progress through this year, we'll exit Pretty close to 25 in the fourth quarter of this year, which sets us up pretty well, I think, for, again, fiscal 28. So gross margin continues to hold in. We're able to capture the value that we're creating. The gross profit dollar book to bill has been in excess of one for quite a while, driving future profit growth. And again, PTI margin on all of that all supports our high single digit margin profile.
Lori Chaitman
Global Head of Investor Relations
Thanks, Martin.
Martin Schroeter
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Thanks for that, Martin.
Lori Chaitman
Global Head of Investor Relations
Operator, next question, please.
Conference Operator
Operator
Our next call comes from Bradley Clark from BMO Capital Markets. Your line is now open.
Bradley Clark
Analyst, BMO Capital Markets
Hey, thanks for taking my question. I just want to go over the consult business signing really strong. and the quarter seems like a lot of positive momentum around modernization. But if we look at the growth, it does look like it's slowed a bit. Just want to understand, you know, how you expect sort of the signings flowing into the revenues over as you look over the next year or so and sort of what the growth of this business do you think looks like over the medium term? Thank you.
Martin Schroeter
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Yeah. Thank you for that. First, your observation that modernization is the theme that's driving this is spot on. It's a pervasive growth theme for us and not surprising given the focus on AI and given the focus on companies wanting to both deploy and scale AI and that's at the heart of what we do. So modernization is definitely the theme. Your observation around the deceleration from 1Q to 2Q is also spot on. So we went from 11 at constant currency growth in the first quarter to 6% in the second. So we finished the first half at high single digit, which is what we said, high single to low double. And I'd say a few things. One, we did have a big first half compare, right? So we printed an eight against last year's growth of, I think it was like 25% in the first half. And then we also saw... and we talked about this in prior calls, we also saw our second half signings slow a bit. But finally, then I'd say the first half signings accelerated again. So first half was, I'm doing it from memory, I think the first quarter was up 50, the second quarter was up in the high 20s, so call it high 30s on the first half. And so with a big compare, slightly decelerated signings last second half of the year, but bigger signings again in the first half, I'd say, you know, I'm confident that 2Q was going to look like the low point of the year in terms of constant currency growth for Consult. And I think we, you know, it keeps us on track now. We're finishing high single digit and we just finished the low point of the year says that we remain on track and we're pretty well positioned for high single or low double digit growth on a full year basis for Consult. That's helpful, Carlos. Congrats on the results.
Lori Chaitman
Global Head of Investor Relations
Thank you. Operator, next question, please.
Conference Operator
Operator
Thank you. And before we get started, just a reminder, if you'd like to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. Our next question comes from Kevin Krishna Ratne from Scotia Bank. Your line is now open.
Kevin Krishnaratne
Analyst, Scotiabank
Hey there. Good morning. Maybe a question for Ellen. Welcome to the team. Just on the quarter and the strong growth margin over 23%, can we maybe separate how much of that relates to the U.S. revenue benefit or how much is structural improvement from higher margin underlying businesses getting booked? And then how do we think about the trend in the 3Q? Does that revert back down to 22%? And then I guess a related question to that is this also what's driving the slight improvement on EBITDA margin guidance? You're now at 19%. For the year, I think you were a little bit over 18% previously.
Ellen Johnson
Chief Financial Officer
Sure, thank you for the question. I'm happy to be part of the team. The item that you're calling out on an overall kindred basis really did not change the results. The improvement that you're seeing in gross margin is really related to stronger gross margins. And we expect them to continue to improve throughout this year. And that is being driven by the efficiencies that we're realizing in delivering our own business as well as you'll see in the back half of the year savings from the WFR.
Kevin Krishnaratne
Analyst, Scotiabank
Got it and is that that's also leading to the to the overall EBITDA margin improvement that you're that you're for?
Ellen Johnson
Chief Financial Officer
Yes that plus increased amortization which we called out.
Kevin Krishnaratne
Analyst, Scotiabank
Amortization gotcha okay and this is just a second question for me I don't know if I heard you call it out but on Europe you'd previously talked about some softness there, customer decisions taking longer. I'm wondering if we're seeing any improvements on that front in the region.
Martin Schroeter
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
So I'd say a couple of things. Look, the debates and the discussions around sovereignty are not only in Europe, but they are certainly in Europe. And so those discussions are challenging for our customers to make sure that they know how they can deal with The nature of the mission-critical systems we run in an ever-changing geopolitical world. On the solution side, as we indicated in our prepared remarks, next week we're going to announce a sovereignty approach that we think will help dramatically address this issue. So overall, we're not seeing a slowdown, if you will, in signings. As we talk about in our prepared remarks, we talk about large deals, we talk about deals over $10 million. If I just use that over $10 million as sort of the cutoff point, I'd say that with the performance we had Well, let me do the under 10. I don't think there's any difference in how we're signing the rate and pace at which we're signing deals that are smaller than $10 million. Now, obviously, customers don't think of themselves as a less than 10 or a greater than 10. But the fact is that for deals that are sort of just standard, the things we do every day under 10 million, I wouldn't say the time to close. Larger deals always have some element of discussion and debate. These are big commitments that our customers are making to us. They're big commitments around what am I going to do for the next five years or six years in some cases even. And yes, sovereignty and the discussion in Europe is an important one. But the discussion around AI is an important one. You know, when the CIO goes to his or her board and says, this is what I'd like to do with Kindrel, the questions are obvious. Well, what did you assume that the Our chosen AI provider is going to announce in six months and nine months. Those are hard questions to answer. So I expect that those will continue. Again, large deals, given our overall performance, our strong first quarter and even better second quarter in signings, it's hard to say that it's slowing us down. Our experience, I would say that when you bring innovation, when you bring expertise, customers are willing to make a move. will continue, as I said, to address the sovereignty issue with another announcement next week. And you put all that together, and I'd say that while Europe has been a little bit slower, I do think we're starting to come back a bit in Europe in signings and, quite frankly, in revenue performance as well.
Kevin Krishnaratne
Analyst, Scotiabank
Gotcha. Thanks, Martin. Appreciate the call.
Lori Chaitman
Global Head of Investor Relations
Thanks, Kevin. Operator, I think we have one more question in the queue.
Conference Operator
Operator
Thank you. Our next question comes from Jamie Friedman from Susquehanna International Group. Your line is now open.
Jamie Friedman
Analyst, Susquehanna International Group
Hi, good morning. Good morning, everyone. I wanted to ask where you are in the journey with the Blueprint Accounts Initiative. Are you 100% there? Is there more to go? And a related question, I'll just ask them up front. Do you see potential upside to the 8% PTI margin on new signings? You know, given we are with that dimension of the business.
Martin Schroeter
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Thank you. Sure. So, so, Jamie, we've been talking, obviously, about focus accounts for a while, and we've driven a substantial amount of profit improvement from reimagining those relationships. But quite frankly, we are kind of coming to the end of that. That doesn't mean that there are no more focus accounts out there. There are some. They have a long tail. But it's not going to be a dramatic driver of our performance over time. We have broadly reimagined these businesses. We have broadly found ways to do what we do. We're in, as you know well, we're in the productivity business. So we have to create, drive productivity. We have to share some of that with our customers. I think we've proven that we can do that. And then we have to reinvest in new capabilities and bring new innovation to capture some of and many more. So I'd say that we're kind of at the end, if you will, of it being really perceptible in the I&E. That's not to say that we don't still have a mix of pre-spin contracts in our P&L that will linger for a few more years still, quite frankly. It was only last year that we had two-thirds of our P&L represented by our post-spin signings. This year, it's north of 80. Next year, it will be to the 90s. Certainly helpful, but there is a long tail to this. Now, having said all that, we're not counting on this business miraculously turning from a high single-digit PTI margin into something else. However, for us, as we talked a little bit earlier, we're going to announce a new offering with our partner ServiceNow, and the profit dynamics of that offering have a dramatically different and much better, quite frankly, margin profile for us. So while we're not relying on this business, the core part of our business to turn into something that isn't going to be very competitive, we're going to have to share, like I said, we're going to have to share productivity with our customers. The other elements of what we have, our data, our ability to share insights with customers, either through our partners or directly, can drive a higher margin profile over time. Thank you, Martin.
Lori Chaitman
Global Head of Investor Relations
Operator, I believe one more panelist came into the queue.
Conference Operator
Operator
Yes. Our next question comes from Tianjin Hong from J.P. Morgan. Your line is now open.
Tien-Tsin Huang
Analyst, J.P. Morgan
Hi, thanks. I have some technical difficulties here. So just quickly on the healthcare IT leaders acquisition, anything more you can say here in terms of what attracted you to the assets and sort of the synergies there and how quickly you can Amplify the growth. And then just wanted to make sure on the three points that was called out from the commercial matter, was that contemplated in guidance? I just want to make sure I understood the impact there.
Martin Schroeter
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
You want to start with the second part and I'll cover health care?
Ellen Johnson
Chief Financial Officer
Sure. The three points of the commercial matter that you're referring to does not change our guidance. If you look at overall Kindrel, it really doesn't move the needle very much over a $15 billion company. And so we're still very comfortable with the guidance that we previously gave.
Martin Schroeter
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
On health care IT, so Tinjan, thanks for the question. Look, we've closed now. We're integrating. It's going very, very well. The teams are getting themselves organized to drive both the continued growth of that particular set of capabilities, but also then to get some synergy. So healthcare IT leaders is a representation of how, given the role we play in our customers' infrastructure, in this case it's healthcare, given the role we play in our customers' infrastructure, we had partnered with this company and we saw how important they are to how our customer base needs their expertise in order to bring the whole solution together, us running the infrastructure, us providing innovation and insights around how that's working, plus the ability to move applications and manage those in a highly regulated environment. So our view is this is an example of how we can move up the stack given the brand permission we have to run these critical systems and to capture value in a more robust way. Plus, that's what they do today. Plus, now drive some synergies across their customer base plus our customer base, etc. So, look, we're very excited about this. We think this is a great acquisition. We'll give them some time to kind of settle in and get used to us. But this is going to work out really well for our customers, which means it'll work out really well for us. Thank you.
Lori Chaitman
Global Head of Investor Relations
All right. Thank you, everyone, for joining. Martin, I'll give you a hand.
Martin Schroeter
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Thanks, Lori. Well, again, thanks, like Lori said. Thanks, everyone, for joining us today and for your interest in Kindrel. You know, every day, as everybody knows, our people manage and modernize the world's most complex IT estates. And we do this while continuing to deliver world-class services every day to our customers. These are the systems that cannot go down. Our focus remains on executing the strategy we've laid out. It will drive profitable growth. I am very proud of what this company and the culture we've built and the differentiated capabilities that we've built and Kindryls around the world are delivering every day and most importantly of the essential work we do for our customers. So thanks again for joining.
Conference Operator
Operator
Thank you for your participation in today's conference. This does conclude the program. You may now disconnect.