Good afternoon and welcome to PennyMac Financial Services, Inc.'s third quarter 2026 earnings call. Additional earnings materials, including presentation slides that will be referred to in this call, as well as an Excel file with supplemental information, are available on PennyMac Financial's website at pfsi.pennymac.com. Before we begin, let me remind you that this call may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to certain risks identified on slide two of the earnings presentation that could cause the company's actual results to differ materially, as well as non-GAAP measures that have been reconciled to their GAAP equivalent in the earnings materials. Now I'd like to introduce David Spector, PennyMax Financials Chairman and Chief Executive Officer. Please go ahead.

Thank you, Operator. Good afternoon, and thank you to everyone for participating in our third quarter 2026 earnings call. Before discussing our financial results, I want to take a few moments to address the important leadership transitions we announced earlier today. First, after a storied career in the mortgage banking industry spanning several decades, including more than 15 years of exceptional leadership at PennyMac, Doug Jones, our President and Chief Mortgage Banking Officer, has made the decision to retire on June 30, 2027. Doug has been an integral partner to me and a cornerstone of PennyMac since its early days. Over the next several months, Doug's roles and responsibilities will transition smoothly to other senior leaders across our organization. Second, effective January 1, 2027, Kevin Ryan, currently our Chief Strategy Officer, will assume the role of Chief Financial Officer. Dan Perotti, our current CFO, will remain in his current role through the end of this year and will continue supporting the company in an advisory role through the first quarter of 2027. Kevin will continue to lead our strategy and business development teams in addition to his financial leadership responsibilities. I want to express my extraordinary gratitude to both Doug and Dan for their long service to PennyMac, their relentless dedication and their enduring passion for our business. Both served in critical leadership positions guiding PennyMac through dynamic market cycles and helping transform our organization into the premier mortgage company it is today. Their countless contributions have shaped our foundation and they will be greatly missed. Having said that, we have an exceptional leadership team and a deep bench of talent that is fully prepared to lead PennyMac into its next chapter. I have absolute confidence in this management team's ability to carry our strategy forward seamlessly while driving long term value for our stockholders. Turning now to our third quarter results on slide three, PennyMac Financial generated $29 million of net income, or 54 cents in diluted earnings per share, representing a 3% annualized return on equity. Adjusted net income was $56 million, or $1.05 per share, for a 5% adjusted return on equity, down slightly from the prior quarter. are largely driven by funded unit volume, Thank you for joining us. Servicing segment pre-tax income was $132 million, up from $99 million in the prior quarter, primarily driven by lower realization of MSR cash flows and an increase in loan servicing fees, partially offset by lower interest income from custodial balances and EBO loan-related income. Slide 4 illustrates the constrained origination environment we are currently operating in. The primary 30-year fixed rate mortgage rose more than 90 basis points from June 30th, ending the quarter at approximately 7.4%. This sharp increase in mortgage rates has impacted the housing market and has driven significantly lower origination demand, particularly for borrowers looking to refinance into a lower rate. According to secondary market data, Industry-wide rate and term agency deliveries have declined approximately 80% from the first quarter of this year. And as you can see by the current distribution by agency mortgages by coupon, less than 1% of homeowners currently possess an incentive greater than 50 basis points to refinance. All of this has created one of the most constrained origination environments our industry has seen since 2023. when rates sharply increased in response to high inflation as we emerged from COVID. Although the origination market remains challenging, higher rates have driven prepayment speeds down to very low levels. This has caused our servicing business to continue to produce strong operating profitability as amortization has declined and fee income has increased. This dynamic highlights the natural heads and Natural Hedge Embedded, and our balanced business model and the power of our large servicing portfolio. Turning now to slide five for key business updates, first, we continue to make progress on the acquisition of Sendlar Subservicing Business and now expect the transition to close in the first quarter of 2027. Thank you for joining us. We expect a modest sequential reduction from the third to the fourth quarter of this year, followed by a much more pronounced step down in the first quarter of 2027 as these initiatives fully run. While these actions reflect necessary staffing and operational reductions in response to a smaller origination market, significant process improvements driven by our continued technology enhancements have given us confidence in our ability to address our customers' needs, even if rates were to meaningfully decline. And after quarter end, we entered into an agreement to sell $29 billion in UPB of low coupon MSRs with an expected close in the fourth quarter. Net proceeds of approximately $490 million will primarily be used to pay down outstanding debt, lowering financing costs. I would also note we maintain an active share repurchase authorization from our board of directors. Given where our common shares have traded relative to book value, and as we've done historically, we will continue to opportunistically utilize our share repurchase authorization to create long-term value for our stockholders. Turning to slide six and looking ahead, while the near term presents cyclical origination market headwinds, we are aggressively executing on structural initiatives to permanently lower our cost structure and position PennyMac appropriately for the size of the market we're currently operating. Given the smaller origination market and the ongoing execution of our expense adjustments through year end, fourth quarter adjusted ROE is expected to remain near current levels. Turning to slide seven, we continue to rapidly accelerate AI automation across our origination business. Across our production workflows, process automation has progressed meaningfully. with 37% live in production and the remaining 28% currently in development expected to be completed by year end. Our automation efforts will continue into 2027, focused primarily on advancing our AI voice agent capabilities and deploying AI agents into our broker direct channel once live on our next generation loan origination system. We have already developed 22 proprietary AI agents that are live in production, which have completed more than 205,000 automated agent executions and over 200,000 automated document reviews, with an additional 17 agents currently in the development pipeline. Our proprietary AI voice agent is already driving meaningful origination volume. In the third quarter alone, it supported more than 15,000 transfers and contributed to over 1,600 rate locks. Just as importantly, this voice agent provides us the ability to rapidly add capacity to meet the demand generated by a market rally, enabling borrower self-service and thereby reducing hold times and lost sales opportunities. By automating labor-intensive fulfillment workflows We are permanently lowering our costs to produce and uncoupling platform capacity from staffing requirements. This will allow us to maintain lean operation in today's constrained environment while ensuring substantial operating leverage when origination volumes normalize. Turning to slide 8, this highlights the opportunity in our consumer direct channel when interest rates decline. as well as the meaningful improvement in our first lien refinance recapture rates in recent periods. As of September 30th, we serviced a combined $355 billion in UPB of loans with note rates above 5%, of which more than 60% or approximately $220 billion in UPB had note rates above 6%. As shown on the right, Our first lean recapture rate remained near record highs at 44%, up 9 percentage points from the prior year. The slight decline from the prior quarter reflects a broader market shift towards more credit-sensitive cash-outs versus rate and term refinances, where we can traditionally see our highest conversion rates. Given the size of our servicing portfolio, our technology foundation, and our accelerating recapture trends, we are highly convinced in our ability to execute on this opportunity, driving towards our long-term ROE targets when interest rates do decline. Now, I'd like to introduce our current Chief Strategy Officer and incoming CFO, Kevin Ryan.

Thank you, David. I am honored and excited to assume the CFO role here at PennyMac, and I want to thank David and the board for their trust and confidence. I also want to express my sincere gratitude to Dan. Over his years of leadership, Dan has built an exceptional world-class finance organization and established a remarkably resilient balance sheet. He and I will be working closely together over the coming months to ensure continuity and a seamless operational handoff. Having spent the past year leading our corporate strategy and business development initiatives, I've had the privilege of working alongside our leaders in production, servicing and technology. Bringing finance, strategy and business development together under one umbrella allows us to tightly integrate our long-term vision with real-time capital allocation and financial execution. In challenging environments like the one we are navigating today, Our priorities are clear. Maintain rigorous cost discipline across the enterprise. Allocate capital dynamically to the highest risk-adjusted return opportunities and leverage our scale and proprietary technology to permanently drive down unit costs across our platform. I look forward to engaging directly with our stockholders and the broader investment community in the months ahead. And with that, I will now turn the call over to Dan, who will review the drivers of PFSI's third quarter financial performance.

Thank you, Kevin. PFSI reported net income of $29 million in the third quarter, or $0.54 in earnings per share, for an annualized ROE of 3%. Adjusted net income was $56 million, or $1.05 in adjusted earnings per share, for an annualized adjusted ROE of 5%. The $0.51 difference between our GAAP and adjusted EPS was driven by $34 million of fair value declines on MSRs, net of hedges and costs, and $2 million of expenses related to our pending acquisition of Senlar's subservice and business. GFSI's Board of Directors declared a third quarter common share dividend of $0.30 per share. On slides 10 and 11, beginning with our production segment, pre-tax loss was $7 million compared to pre-tax income of $38 million in the prior quarter and $123 million in the third quarter of 2025. Total acquisition and origination volumes were $24 billion in unpaid principal balance, down 30% from the prior quarter and 33% from the third quarter of last year. The revenue contribution from the correspondent channel was down $6 million from the prior quarter. This decline was driven by lower production volume as the origination market was impacted by higher interest rates. In addition, we have maintained our pricing discipline, not chasing loan volume priced around aggressive recapture assumptions that we don't feel comfortable underwriting. Also, correspondent lending remains competitive, with the GSEs remaining active through their cash window, alongside other industry participants competing aggressively on price. Our priority remains allocating capital prudently and preserving margin discipline. In October, correspondent volumes are expected to be in line with average third quarter levels. In broker direct, revenue contribution was down $23 million from the prior quarter. The channel remains competitive with fallout adjusted locks down 28% and margins down 12 basis points from the prior quarter. Volumes in October are down slightly from the average third quarter levels as a result of higher mortgage rates. The revenue contribution from our consumer direct channel declined $40 million from the prior quarter as higher interest rates resulted in lower refinance demand. Followed adjusted lock volumes were down 37% from the prior quarter due to the sharp increase in mortgage rates. Margins were up to 335 basis points from 300 basis points in the prior quarter, reflecting a higher proportion of closed-end second lien production versus first liens. Secondary market impacts across the channels resulted in a $5 million pre-tax loss compared to $7 million of pre-tax loss in the prior quarter. Of note, on slide 11, prior period amounts have been recast to conform to our current period presentation. The line previously titled post-lock impacts and other has been changed to secondary market impacts to isolate pure pipeline hedging, valuation changes, and secondary execution items. As part of this presentation update, certain execution items previously captured in this line item have now been attributed directly to each respective channel. While this recasts historical channel margins, our total production revenues, expenses, and pre-tax income remain unchanged. Production expenses, net of loan origination expense, decreased 11% from the prior quarter due to previously announced reductions in capacity and lower volumes. Turning to the servicing segment, on slides 12 and 13, our total servicing portfolio UPD ended the quarter at $737 billion, up slightly from the end of the prior quarter. The servicing segment recorded pre-tax income of $99 million. Excluding MSR fair value changes net of hedging, pre-tax income was $132 million, or 7.3 basis points up from $99 million or 5.5 basis points in the prior quarter. Servicing fees were up from the prior quarter, primarily due to growth in the MSR portfolio. Realized prepayment speeds were 8.1%, down from 11.6% in the prior quarter. This decline resulted in a 15% reduction in the realization of MSR cash flows and also drove lower average custodial balances and related earnings. Income from EBO activities was down $20 million from the prior quarter due to higher rates and recent changes to FHA and VA loss mitigation programs, which changed the timing and volume of buyout and re-delivery options. Operating expenses in the quarter were 4.4 basis points of average servicing portfolio UPV, or $80 million, up slightly from the prior quarter. On slide 14, including the provision for losses on active loans, the fair value of PFSI's MSR increased by $930 million. An increase of $951 million was due to changes in market interest rates, and $21 million of declines was due to other model and performance-related impacts. Hedge fair value losses, including principal-only bond accretion changes, were $964 million. REIT impacts accounted for $946 million of losses, while hedge costs were $18 million, down from $52 million last quarter, and more in line with our long-term targets. Corporate and other items recorded a pre-tax loss of $49 million, compared to $29 million in the prior quarter. The prior quarter included $9 million of valuation-related gains related to our minority interest in VESTA. On slide 15, total debt to equity at quarter end was three and a half times, down slightly from the end of the prior quarter, and nonfunding debt to equity was 1.9 times, up from 1.8 times at the end of the prior quarter. The increase in nonfunding leverage was driven by higher interest rates, which increased the utilization of our secured MSR facilities. To provide some context on how this dynamic operates, our MSR portfolio is financed through secured bank facilities where our borrowing base is driven by the collateral value of the underlying asset. When interest rates rise sharply, as they did throughout the third quarter, the fair value of our MSR increases which expands our available borrowing capacity with our banking partners. At the same time, because we maintain a disciplined near 100% hedge, our derivative hedge positions decline in value, requiring cash variation margin and rebalancing. We utilize the expanded collateral capacity on our MSR facilities to fund those hedge requirements. This creates a self-funding mechanism that protects stockholder equity and book value while mechanically resulting in higher facility draws and non-funding leverage during periods of rising rates. Holding interest rates constant through a combination of earnings and utilizing the approximately $490 million in proceeds from our planned MSR sale to pay down outstanding debt, we expect non-funding leverage at year end to be lower. Finally, we ended the quarter with $3.5 billion of total liquidity, which includes cash and amounts available to draw on facilities where we have collateral pledged. On a more personal note, I want to take a moment to express my sincere gratitude to David, our board of directors and my colleagues for their trust, partnership and shared dedication throughout my time at PennyMac. I'm extraordinarily proud of what we've accomplished in my 18 years with the company and my six years in the CFO role. And in particular, I'm proud of the world-class finance organization and the resilient balance sheet we have built. Having worked alongside Kevin for the past year, I have the utmost confidence in his leadership and vision to steer our financial and strategic execution going forward as he assumes the CFO role. And finally, to our shareholders and the investment community, thank you for your thoughtful engagement, rigorous questions, and constructive partnership over the years. It's been a privilege working with you. And now we'll open it up for questions. Operator?

We will now begin the question and answer session. I would like to remind everyone we will only take questions related to PennyMac Financial Services, Inc., or PFSI. We also ask that you please keep your questions limited to one preliminary question and one follow-up question, as we'd like to ensure we can answer as many questions as possible. If you would like to ask a question during this time, please raise your hand. If you have dialed into today's call, please press star followed by the number one to raise your hand. And if you'd like to withdraw your question, press star one again. We ask that you pick up your handset when asking a question to allow for optimum sound quality. If you are muted locally, please remember to unmute your device. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Your first question comes from the line of Crispin Love with Piper Sandler. Your line is open. Please go ahead. Crispin, your line is open. You may be muted locally. Your next question comes from the line of Doug Harder with BTIG. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Thanks. I'm hoping we can talk a little bit more about the MSR sale and kind of how you're thinking about what is the target level for leverage. And, you know, I guess on that MSR sale, are you retaining subservicing on that?

Sure, Doug. Hey, this is Dan. Thanks for the question. In terms of the MSR sale, as we mentioned, utilizing, we're expecting to utilize the majority of the proceeds to pay down our outstanding MSR or some of our outstanding MSR debt. With respect to overall leverage, as we've talked about before, non-funding leverage, generally have targeted being closer to one and a half times. We expect to move toward that level over time, not necessarily all in at once. and many more. and many more. and so overall over the next few quarters we expect to bring down our leverage ratio from the levels that it is at today through a combination of the MSR sale and deploying some of that cash as well as we see interest rates decline somewhat and utilizing the earnings from our business to bring overall leverage down.

Great. And then I guess just, are you retaining subservicing on the sale? And how do you think about additional sales?

We're not retaining subservicing on this sale. That is an opportunity that we see potentially in future sales, but not with this particular sale. As we are looking at the market overall and our capital position as well as opportunities, we'll continue to look at potential opportunities for MSR sales, but it is not necessarily something that we expect to be a consistent strategy. It's our evaluation of our capital position versus opportunities that we see as well as our overall leverage level and performance. and our trajectory with respect to that.

And Doug, this is David. I just want to add, this is one of the benefits that we get from the similar acquisition and the fact that we have and many more. So this is the flexibility that we're excited about, and we're going to continue to strategically look at the market in terms of looking at MSRs. Perhaps these are low-rate MSRs. They don't. They don't exactly fit what we want in terms of the flywheel and the future opportunity. And there's an active market for these. So it was a good transaction all the way around.

Great. Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Trevor Cranston with Citizens JMP. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Hi, thanks, and congratulations to everyone on the career transitions. Looking at the Consumer Direct channel specifically, I was wondering if you could provide a little color on, you know, within 3Q numbers, kind of how much of the volume there came from second lien volume in 3Q and kind of where you expect Overall volume within the Consumer Direct channel to kind of stabilize assuming rates stay around the current level.

Thanks. Look, so obviously we had more of a proportion of our production coming in second main volume. The fundings in Q3 in Consumer Direct were approximately $3.3 billion, of which approximately $700 million of it was closed in seconds. And that number, you know, is staying pretty consistent in the market today. You know, year over year, we were up in consumer direct. But, you know, right now, the focus on consumer direct is on cash outs and closed in seconds, given the fact that rates are at the level where rate and term refinance is not really in the money. In addition, we added the HELOC product into our consumer direct channel. We launched that over the past couple of weeks. And so that's something that we're looking forward to being able to offer to our consumers as well.

Got it. OK, that's helpful. And then, you know, in the commentary, it sounded like you guys were seeing some competitive pressure on margins in the broker direct channel. Can you maybe provide an update on what you're seeing in the early part of 4Q and how you expect that to evolve given the increased competition for loans? Thanks.

You know, we maintain a really and many more. in terms of competitors that don't meet our return targets. And so we want to be market leaders. We want to stay disciplined in our pricing and how we price. And in particular, we want to be on the government side really mindful of the fact that there's a few executions out there that require a very large servicing investment on strip sizes north of 50 basis points that again don't really pan out When you look at the recapture opportunity. Staying aggressive as well, but we're picking and choosing our spots and, you know, while maintaining market share and not really getting too caught up in market share at levels that are just not sustainable or that one can rationalize. Yeah. Okay.

I appreciate the comments. Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Bose George with KBW. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Hey, guys. Good afternoon. And Dan, it's been a pleasure working with you over the years. First question, just on the guidance that you guys gave. So just to clarify, so that's a 5% expectation for 4Q. And then where do you see that trending in 2027, assuming the market remains flat?

Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, both. I'll lead off with this, and I'm sure Dan or Kevin will comment afterwards. But look, we're in a very challenging origination market with higher interest rates. And I think right now we are right-sizing our production channel and trying to maintain a level of profitability in Q4. Obviously, we're able to offset that with the continued decline in amortization. and so many of the actions we're taking this quarter won't run right until early next year. And as you know, with respect to 2027, obviously the origination market is expected to decline. You know, we're seeing forecasts in the NBA and Fannie Mae bring it down to $1.9 trillion. Right now we're running a little bit lighter than that in terms of the run rate. We have taken aggressive actions to right-size the business appropriately from Thank you for joining us. from Q426 to Q427, I'm expecting us to be at low double digits by Q427. And if you start out at the 5% level we're at today, there's about 3.5 points that are going to come out of servicing, primarily at these levels because of the reduction in speeds and the lower amortization. The increase in net interest income and then bringing on Senlar in the back half of the year. We're expecting another two points to come from the OpEx reductions that we've made in the second half of 26 and getting a full run rate of those. and then there's going to be another one to two points coming out of our production channels, primarily coming out of the implementation of Vesta in broker direct, the deployment of the AI agents in consumer direct that will be replicated in broker direct and then just some increase in pricing strategies and executions that we have been identifying in this period of time as we're Thank you for joining us. Thank you for joining us.

which is, as David said, we're assuming a mortgage market next year that's smaller than $1.9 trillion, certainly smaller than 2026 is likely to finish up. And we're focused on the things we can control. Most of what David went through was SENDLAR, NAI, expense reductions, and we're already at $160,000 and we're not done yet on expense reductions. And so we're not bullish on the market.

Your next question comes from the line of Don Fendetti with Wells Fargo. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Look, it's a tough mortgage market. It's a scale business. I'm just curious if, you know, as you look out over the landscape and all the tech investment, you know, do you feel like you guys have the right scale or do you need to consider something, some strategic alternatives maybe that are Well, more dramatic, or do you feel like you can kind of compete with the likes of maybe some of the larger players in the business?

Look, I feel really good about what we have here, you know, in the organization. You know, we have we're about to complete our 19th year. I think our track record is well known. and our ability to adapt in the cyclical market that you rightfully talk about today is something that is a trademark of the organization. I think what I'm really excited about is the fact that as rates do come down, and they will come down, I feel really good about the position we're in being able to attack the demand that's going to come about without having to scurry about to add people or or other infrastructure. And so we're really taking advantage of this period of time where rates are at these elevated levels to move quickly to complete the work on the loan origination side to be able to deal with any increase in production. Look, I think that the market is a tough one. I think you're going to continue to see consolidation in the market. But I think we have, if you think about Thank you for joining us. to get more and more efficient. And that scale is going to be a real benefit to us as we strategically address what the portfolio is.

Remember, Don, we're going to be over a trillion in servicing when we close Sandlar. We're at scale.

Got it. Okay. Thanks for the thoughts. Thanks, Don.

Your next question comes from the line of Crispin Love with Piper Sandler. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Thank you. Am I coming through now? Yep. Yep. Hi, Crispin. Okay. Hey, how you doing? Apologies for that earlier. David, on capacity, on a comment that you just made, it seems like you wouldn't need to add significant capacity if rates did rally. Is that fair? And is that because of the tech initiatives that you're taking right now? Just curious if I'm thinking about that correctly.

Yeah.

Look, we...

I'm not going to say we're going to have to, you know, we'll be at zero. Because there's always a client who wants a human in the loop. Having said that, the human in the loop becomes less and less prevalent in terms of the refinancing of a mortgage. And even more importantly on the processing side, The human in the loop has been greatly reduced. And so from my perspective, the amount of ads we're going to have to do, and, you know, I was looking at, we were looking yesterday at like a hundred basis point rally. It's less than a hundred people across the consumer direct channel when historically that number would have been multiples. And so I feel really good about what we're building. And look, the longer... and many more.

is that something that you're able to sell? Because I don't believe you're retaining it. Just if you can provide any color for the bank charter and just what's possible with that, that'd be great. Thank you.

Yeah, yeah, Crispin, it's Kevin. We, and I think we talked about this in previous calls, we've done a lot of work on retaining it. I think a combination of, it's been, Basel III has been slow to get implemented, although we're supportive of the licensee and, you know, they've got 100 clients that are great clients and we've got the lowest cost of service in the industry. So we want to get those loans on our platform as quickly as possible. So our plan is to close the deal in Q1, X the bank charter. We're working, Dan's really leading an effort to work with Sandler's management to dispose of the deposits at that bank charter and that bank charter will just, you know, relinquish and we'll close the deal.

Thank you, and congratulations on the new role, Kevin. Thank you.

Your next question comes from the line of Ryan Shelley with Bank of America. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Hey, guys. Thanks for the question. Just following up on the Sandlar acquisition, it looks like timing has slipped a bit into one queue of next year. Could you just give everyone a reminder on what approvals you still need? and, you know, if there's any kind of customer transfer. Hey, Ryan, can you speak up?

Hey, Ryan, can you start from the top and speak up, please?

Yeah, is that better?

A little bit.

Okay. Sorry about that. Yeah, just on Sandlar, just a quick follow-up. It looks like the timing has slipped a little bit into early next year. Could you just remind us of what approvals are still needed and, you know, if there's any – and so on.

So we feel very comfortable in that Q1 timing. It took more time to study the bank, right? So part of the slowdown was self-imposed.

Understood. Thank you. And then just one more on leverage. It sounds like you should expect leverage to kick down next quarter, especially after this MSR sale. Given the environment, can we generally expect next year you guys to aim to operate closer to that 1.5 target. And to get there, could we see future sales potentially of MSRs in the book? Thanks.

Yeah, look, I'll start and Dan may want to jump in. As David mentioned, this is opportunistic. We're going to be over a trillion servicing post-SANLAR. We're clearly at scale. Thank you very much. So we have levers to pull. We have a lot of liquidity and we certainly have levers to pull as it relates to leverage.

And I would, you know, consistent with what I talked about earlier, we continue to evaluate potential MSR sales. But as Kevin said, you know, there's nothing necessarily in the pipeline in terms of sales currently. And it's something that we continue to evaluate in terms of our capital options. Got it. Thanks for the time, guys.

Thanks, Ryan.

Your next question comes from the line with Anna Hsu with Barclays. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Thanks for taking my question. I know on the call, Dan mentioned that the MSR facility commitment to increase with the improvement in the MSR Fair Value program. that was offset by the debt increase to fund the hedge requirement. Overall, it looks like net liquidity declined by $500 million to $3.5 billion, which I think is on the lower end of where you guys have run at in the past few years. Is this something that we should think of as a minimal level of liquidity and are you guys thinking about any kind of liquidity risk that might materialize for the industry, maybe beyond just servicing advances?

So our liquidity planning process and scenario planning process around liquidity is very robust. You know, we have a weekly discipline where we are looking out at a 12-month, over a 12-month or That includes shocks to both interest rates and the potential impacts of liquidity from that, as we discussed on the call and how that can impact liquidity with respect to hedges, as well as a potential significant delinquency shock, as we saw in the shock that we use is similar to what we saw during COVID and what the impact of that would be if prepayments in a slower prepayment speed environment. So where P&I advances are also significantly impacted. and as we're looking at the sizing of our facilities and our available liquidity, even in those scenarios, we still have excess liquidity for the combination of those two types of shocks. The overall liquidity level that we're looking at, as you said, is on the lower end of where we've been historically. Obviously, that has expanded as we've rallied down a little bit. and had a reversal of what we saw in Q3 or at the end of Q3 with respect to interest rates to the extent that we needed additional, as we're looking at our liquidity planning, needed additional facility availability and many more. combined with a significant interest rate shock would look to expand our liquidity further. So that overall, with respect to the current levels, as you said, we generally would expect that to be on the lower end of what we would see given our overall liquidity planning, or at least given the current size of the portfolio. But to the extent that we needed to increase that or saw a different shock, we have plenty of collateral to be able to expand our facilities further.

Great, thank you. And then I know you mentioned you guys were opportunistically selling MSRs, so I'm assuming that we should expect to book a gain on MSR sales in fourth quarter.

We are not expecting to book a gain. We've sold the MSR portfolio near, inconsistent with our mark. So when you see the results in the fourth quarter, it will come through as normal fair value changes, not something that's a specific gain on sale, but the sale was consistent with where we have the portfolio marked.

There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back to David Spector for closing remarks.

Thank you, operator, and thank you all for joining us this afternoon. I encourage investors with additional questions to contact our investor relations team by email or phone. And thanks again for the time and the good questions today.

This concludes today's call. Thank you for attending. You may now disconnect.